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Tuesday, 07 February, 2012
General
You can shine!

Lloyd Bracken works with CEIST (Catholic Education an Irish Schools Trust), the trustee body for the schools run by the Daughters of Charity, Presentation Sisters, Sisters of the Christian Retreat, Sisters of Mercy, Missionaries of the Sacred Heart.


 

‘I am the Light of the world’

The light of the faith is no ordinary ESB generated light. It is a light that allows us see ourselves in our own true light, as we really are. This suggests that there is a ‘me’ that is real and authentic and when I am not being this real authentic me I am then an aberration of my true self, something false, something bréagach. Máirtín Ó’Direáin had a strong sense of this falseness in his term ‘Corpán ar Chosa’ (Gadscaoileadh). By this he meant being a sort of carcass that walks about but devoid of spirit and soul, resonating with St James (2:24), ‘For the body without the spirit is dead’.

Pushing the idea even further, a doll for instance can look like a human being with a face, a fine head of hair, arms and legs, a wardrobe of clothes.  The manufacturers of dolls are even trying to make them more and more human drawing tears and scowls from the life-like ‘babies’. But a doll will always be a bréagán, something bréagach. We are not dolls. We are a weave of body, mind, soul and consciousness, hopes and dreams, likes and dislikes, woven by the divine weaver; ‘For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb’ (Psalm 139). We are a complex and wonderful creature. We are the thinking species par excellance. We are children of the Light not of the dark. We are children of God.

God is not ‘The Man above’ as we often hear people say. We live within God. The trick is to allow Him to break not so much in but out. When the Saints caught this message they went crazy with excitement.

Running through the streets of Genoa, St Catherine startled the shoppers by shouting with delight ‘My deepest me is God’. Isn’t that amazing? St Francis was on the same personal track realising that he was, as we are, intimately linked to God. It is said that he spent all day and all night just asking the following question, ‘Who am I? Who are You?’ Thomas Merton arrived at this exciting place too. He shouts, ‘Make ready for Christ, whose smile, like lightning, sets free the song of everlasting glory that now sleeps, in your paper flesh, like dynamite’. 

Deepak Chopra, too, is in line with Ó’Direáin and St. James. Deepak was a doctor. He became disenchanted with the way medicine viewed the person. He has referred to his life at the time as “crushing” – he chain-smoked, drank scotch to cope with the stress, and became increasingly fed up of treating patients as “machines with parts wearing out”. He has said in previous interviews that he felt like a licensed drug-pusher.

And yet, he writes in Reinventing the Body, Resurrecting the Soul , “every one of these people lived lives that had nothing to do with machines breaking down and needing repair”.

“These lives were full of meaning and hope, emotions and aspirations, love and suffering.

“Machines don’t lead such lives. Before long I began to see that the body as seen through the lens of science was inadequate and artificial.” (The Irish Times: 18 May 2010) So, there is something more to us humans than meets the eye. Would it have anything to do with what sustains our very being?

We are not human beings that have occasional spiritual experiences, but rather spiritual beings having a human experience.

“In Christian theology,” Deepak says, “it talks about being in the world but not of it. Our spiritual nature is eternal and transcendent. It exists outside of space time.”

“What I discovered is that a shift in consciousness can lead to a shift in biology.

“If you are stressed, the cells in your body reflect that. We ignored the impact on the body of the states of consciousness we call holiness, love, compassion, joy or just plain happiness.

“It’s only in the past 10 to 15 years that research has shown that when a person is in love, their biology is different” (The Irish Times).

So there is a link between our consciousness and divinity. God sustains all of existence. The poet Hopkins caught this when he said the ‘The universe is charged with the glory of God’.

A Hindu proverb captures this link; ‘consciousness shines with a light from beyond itself’. So we should never feel we are abandoned to the dark. God is always with us. Remember Zecharia’s statement of faith, ‘He will give light to those in darkness’ (Lk 1:79). Have you ever noticed that even when we are not with another person we are constantly speaking to Someone. We are never alone. Christ is this someone, the light of the world. It is this divine light that sustains us. It is this same light that created the universe. Christ, the light of the world, will never go out as a candle does. Christ is the source of our light. Christ’s light is always switched on especially every time we are in a creative space in our heads, in our music, our sport, our art, in our poetry and story but most especially in our relationships. The source of this light is Christ.

‘In him was life, and the life was the light of people. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it’ (Jn 1:1-9).

To be truly human then is to walk in this light. This is what is meant by being spiritually enlightened. To be enlightened spiritually, one must find the light, believe in the light, come to the light, put on the armour of light, and walk in the light. Love and Light created the Universe. Love is the light that the Gospels tell us about. Jesus is love. God is love. The Father created out of love.

Faith in God presupposes love. Being a person of faith is being a person of the Light and Love. Love is the only reality. The song from the musical Oliver Twist comes to mind at this point, ‘Where is love? Does it fall from skies above? ...Where is she who I close my eyes to see?’ So where do we see this spiritual light? It is love that truly brightens up our otherwise dark lives. As the song says,

‘Ain’t no sunshine when she’s gone’.

Oliver has it right. Love is his mother. St. Ireneus understood the heart of a mother when he said, paraphrasing, ‘All the best theology is written into the heart of a mother’. Through the humanity of our mothers we meet the divine hug and kiss but also His/Her loving correction. ‘Thou shalt not…’ What Mom wants for us is exactly what Jesus wants for us. That is, to be loving and lovable, happy and free, responsible and useful.

Love is at its most brilliant through the transcendent humanity of people. It was Jesus who demonstrated that one can be human and divine at the same time. All God’s divinity was present in Jesus’ humanity (2 Cor 5:19). What a mystery this suggests! How can one possibly get all that unlimited and infinite divinity into limited and finite humanity? You need only look at your mother to know that this is possible. Nobody loves like a mother. Mothers are divinised by their amazing love. Just consider for a moment all of what our mothers have done for us. It is breath taking to say the least.

Being human our version of love fluctuates up and down like the red fluid on the barometer. This is simply how it is for us. It is neither sad nor bad that this is the case. It must be part of God’s plan really when he created us. For us love is something to strive for constantly. It must be worked at. Love is a daily decision of commitment to our deepest values. This is the nuts and bolts of a real life. When we love, though our love is a muddling one, we are in step with the great Lover of lovers.

Thankfully, He knows us and walks with us at our pace till we are fit enough to stride at his. Have you ever noticed how your dog wants to pull you at his pace initially, but, out of love for you will adapt and slow to your rhythm? God does this too. The poem Footprints in the sand comes to mind.

Our love is mercurial by contrast to God’s. Have you ever noticed that your spark, your passion for life, can waver from time to time, when you have lost the zest for life? How did you ever get it back?

Albert Schweitzer understood this and he also grasped the answer when he said, ‘In everyone’s life, at some time, our inner fire goes out, but it is burst into flame again by an encounter with another human being. We should all be thankful for those people who rekindle our inner spirit’
 
Leo Buscaglia endorses this view when he says, ‘Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, a compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential of turning a life around’.

The retrieving of the true self and the rekindling of the spark for life is captured in numerous films, like, A Good Year, About the Boy, Bucket List, and Phone Booth and so on. The Sunday Independent Supplement caught it crisply in the heading ‘Colin Farrell – back on track’. It suggests what we all innately know. There is a metaphorical track that we all need to be on if we are to be happy. Only this track allows me be true to myself and to others. When I’m on this track I am fulfilled, have great relationships, work at a meaningful job and make a contribution to others. On this track I can put the spark back in to a person’s life.  On this track I shine brightly.

A dimmer switch functions in two simple ways, to dim and to brighten. It is our individual choice either to dim or to brighten, to be an agent of the dark or an agent of the light. Schools too act as dimmer switches that want to brighten, not darken, the potential of a child. Schools are an encyclopaedia of stories of transformation that testify to its efforts, small and great, to brighten the life of a child. It is moving to hear these amazing stories when teachers are in a reflective mood. These same stories are etched on to the faces of the students that smile back at you from the photo displays from the walls of the school corridors. The stories beam with the light of joy, of learning and teaching, of achievement, and, of course, of friendship.

I recently came across an amazing Youtube clip called Pantene Ad ‘You can shine’: It captures all of the above. This is the story.

A deaf girl wants to do the seemingly impossible, something already achieved by Beethoven. She wants to be a musician and play the violin. The young student is influenced by a street performer who does sign language.

The journey is not easy. Her class mates tell her she is crazy. They shout at her with questions that destroy her confidence, ‘Can a duck sing?’, ‘Can a deaf person play the violin?’ They are very tough on her and reject her and ridicule her brave efforts. 

One day she is among a large gathering watching and listening (not she) to a street performer. At the end of his performance he receives a great applause. He recognises her when all the rest have dispersed. He signs, ‘Are you still playing the violin?’ His interest in her is too much in the context of all the rejection she is enduring. She breaks down and cries bitter tears. They talk while sitting on the pavement reminding us of what St. Augustine said, ‘I have learned more from those who talked to me than from those who have taught me’. She shares her heart.

In her pain she asks, ‘Why am I different from others?’ He responds wisely, and compassionately, turning her question up-side-down making her embrace an alternative perspective, one that ignites a passion to fulfil her dream, ‘Why do you have to be like others?’ ‘Music’ he says, ‘is a visual thing. You can see it when you close your eyes.’

She joins her street mentor after that playing music for passers by safe in his company where she can grow. Even this joy is violently disrupted when a street gang beat the musician up and smash the girl’s violin into pieces off the pavement. Her mentor ends up in hospital. Surely her dreams, like her violin, are now completely and utterly in ruins.

It doesn’t end here. Her spirit is now too strong to be snuffed out just like that. She enters a competition. She is the last one to be called up. She plays with all the pain and passion that define her struggle to be happy. She simply amazes the audience with her performance. She shines.

‘Don’t let anything obscure your light’. Many things will try especially fear, fear of one thing or another. When you discover your true self, fear will cease to have any grip on your life. ‘Do not be afraid’ appears 366 times in the bible. So God is definitely on the side of the true self. God offers his only Son as our Way, our truth and our Life. 

Hold on to Faith in Jesus, Hope in Jesus and Love of Jesus despite all the odds. Faith, hope and love are three bulbs, though the one Light, that shine within you. You are an important part of the divine plan for a better world. Together you create creation.

Eckhart Tolle put it like this, ‘Your goal in life is to allow the divine purpose to unfold. This is how important you are’.

All of the good, the loving, the forgiving, the mercy, the sharing, the compassion, the humanity, you do is just that, the allowing of the divine purpose to unfold.

Nelson Mandela caught this wisdom when he quoted Marianne Williamson’s amazing poem:

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate;
Our deepest fear is that we are
powerful beyond measure.
It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us.
We ask ourselves, “Who am I to be
brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?”
Actually, who are you not to be?
You are a child of God.
Your playing small does not serve the world.
There is nothing enlightened about
Shrinking so that other people won’t feel insecure around you.
          

We are born to make manifest the
glory of God that is within us.
It is not just in some of us,
It’s in everyone.
And as we let our light shine,
We unconsciously give other
people permission to do the same.
As we are liberated from our fears,
Our presence automatically liberates others.

 

 
Seven stages in spiritual evolution

This presentation on the stages of spiritual evolution is by Fr Korko Moses SJ (Swamy Saranananda) who runs a Christian ashram in India. His thought is in the line of the mystical tradition of St Teresa of Avila and St John of the Cross, especially along the third, fourth, and fifth stages.


 

1.1 Stages of mind evolution
From womb to tomb we experience different levels of growth within us. Physically we grow from babyhood to old age through various stages of pre-adolescence, adolescence, adulthood and middle age. Our intellect grows through gathering information, thinking and analyzing and decision making to intuitive direct perception. We also grow into emotional maturity by learning to balance our feelings with reason. Similarly the spiritual awakening also takes place within us through various stages. In the initial stages of our growth we think of ourselves as the physical body, then we become aware of our mental capacity to think and to feel. This level of awareness of oneself as the body-mind unit is called body consciousness. As we keep growing we also become aware of the promptings of the spirit within. When we keep attending to it we slowly become aware of our real identity as the spirit, as children of God. This is attaining spirit consciousness. Spiritual evolution or evolution to spirit consciousness in a person goes parallel with the development of one's mind. For our purpose we see it in seven distinct stages.

First Stage - Instinctive mind
We are born programmed with an instinctive mind for survival. As babies we instinctively eat, sleep, play, cry and so on to meet our basic needs of food, love, protection, rest and enjoyment. It is part of the wisdom of the body. This mind is chaotic, undisciplined, inconsistent and unpredictable. It has no identity. It lives in the present. It expresses its emotions freely and spontaneously. No moral judgments arise in this mind whether something is right or wrong. Even after reason develops the instinctive mind continues to operate in us until we die.

Second Stage - Social mind
As we grow from childhood to pre-adolescent the thinking process starts. We become more and more 'civilized'. We begin to realize that we are not an isolated island but members of a family and a society. We begin to identify ourselves with the family, neighborhood and church community, with our culture, nation and social groups. This sense of belonging gives a security and an identity. We learn the rules and norms of these social-units and make their values our own. We begin to act according to the expectations of the elders, in trying to win their approval. These social units try to socialize us by the reward and punishment method: approval means promotion, heaven; or disapproval means ex-communication, the threat of hell. We want to turn out to be the best boy or best girl in the school, parish and society. Soon we appropriate the thinking pattern, traditions and values of these social units. We do not ask if these are all right or not. With love and respect to the elders on whom we depend so much for our survival and growth, we take them in good faith, taking them to be the best values for us. In fact elders usually resent any questioning. They expect us to accept these norms and conform to them. Everything seems to be well worked out within the social system; there is an answer to every question and a solution for every problem. We only have to understand and conform. This is the stage of idealism, loyalty, commitment, achievement and martyrdom for a noble cause.

Third Stage - Individual mind
As we come to adolescence and move on to adulthood, many questions arise in our mind that the social system is not able to answer to our satisfaction. The explanations given by religion concerning the meaning of life, the cause of suffering and other such human issues are far from convincing. Failures, disappointments, tragedy, death of dear ones, accidents and natural calamities make us think seriously about life. Besides, we come in contact with other social groups who seem to think and act in a different way and propose different solutions to human problems. We want to know who is right. If we start thinking a little more deeply more serious questions arise in our minds  with regard to our existence such as - who am I?, where do I come from?, where am I going?, what is my relation to the rest of creation? is there a God?, what is life?, why do innocent people suffer?, and so on. We do not want to accept any one particular solution on the basis of the authority of the elders or of Scripture alone as we did in our previous stage; rather we want to explore and find out for ourselves.

With these questions we enter into a painful period of search, confusion and uncertainty. There are many obstacles on the way of this inner search. We could get into serious difficulty with our elders who would condemn us as rebellious, disloyal or bad, and prevent us from pursuing these questions. On the other hand, it is frightening to think for oneself. We do not know where it will lead us to. It is troublesome and risky. There is also the problem of having the time and the means to reflect and search. On account of responsibilities and struggles of life, one may not get sufficient time to think seriously on these vital questions and so may resolve to live with the ready-made answers given by society even if they are not fully satisfactory. Naturally very few are able to pursue these questions with patience and persistence. Restlessness, cynicism, breaking the social rules, roaming about, spending time with people of other social units and extensive reading are characteristic features of this stage and these features are not generally appreciated by the social system.

Fourth Stage - Universal mind
From this stage onwards an internal movement starts. It is basically a movement from a self-centered life to a God-centered life. It is a process of progressively being freed from the clutches of selfish desires to a life of self-less service. The self-centered worldly life can express itself either in conventional piety finding fulfillment in ritual, moral and social observances or in religious indifference and an insensitive and sinful life. Through life experiences of suffering, disappointments and sickness gradually one may come to a realization of the futility of one's thoughts and actions, and of the things that gave satisfaction so far. There arises a desire for spiritual knowledge, a desire to know the ultimate truth of existence. This process is called conversion. Those who take a risk and dare to pursue these questions slowly begin to understand themselves as part of a larger unit of humankind; they see themselves as members of a family consisting of all living beings. They see every family and every religion or group as their own. They are in wonder and appreciation of other cultures and religions and ready to learn from them and enrich themselves.

Fifth Stage: Transcending mind
But even beyond this newly discovered identification with the universal family, the questions still persist: who am I really? where does the universe come from?, what is the force behind all these things that we see? The search continues, but by a different route. By now one realizes that there is a mystery that cannot be grasped by the mind, one which is beyond the capacity of the mind to fathom. Only faith, intuition or direct experience can help fathom these questions. We start searching for spiritual masters, sages or gurus who have found answers to these questions and who are willing to lead us to the same goal. One now loses interest in the attractions of the world and sets oneself totally to find and taste the Ultimate reality. The desire for the realization of the Ultimate can be so strong that one may stake all of one's family, religion, wealth, health and even one's very life. This again is a very difficult passage. So far one has walked safely under the dictates of one's reason. Now one comes to a space where reason fails. Faith alone is our hope (as we sing in Tantum ergo, "senses cannot grasp this marvel, faith alone must compensate"). Reason has to give way to intuition born of discrimination and spiritual sadhana (intense spiritual pursuit). In taking an experienced person as guide one takes to a serious sadhana of introspection and of bringing the mind to one-pointedness where one can experience the reality for oneself. This demands total renunciation, serious effort and faith in a guru or a spiritual system. Bringing the mind under perfect control, to go beyond all concepts, symbols, name and form, to perceive the essence and unity of all things is the hardest of all tasks. It is at this stage one settles down in an ashram or monastery or in some quiet place and meditates under the guidance of some enlightened master.

Sixth Stage - Christ mind
When one does serious sadhana with renunciation and faith unmediated by the senses and mind there then emerges a direct experiential knowledge of the ultimate reality. This is beyond the powers of description of human language. Symbols are used to point to this experience. Those who have gone through this experience see their very self in all beings, recognize God in all beings and see all beings in God. They attain God consciousness. This is the height of spiritual perfection.

In the Sermon on the Mount according to Mathew, Jesus says, "Be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect" (Mt 5:48). The perfection of the Father is that he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. Luke has a slightly different version of the same teaching, "Be you compassionate as your Father also is compassionate" (Luke 6:36). The compassion of the Father here is, "He is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil". Putting these texts together we see the perfection of the Father is in fact compassion, that is perfect equanimity, having the same loving attitude towards the good and the bad, to the just and the unjust, to friend and enemy. This is possible only when one attains the sama-darshana or same-sighted-mess, which is seeing one's very self in all beings or seeing God in all beings. For this one has to realize oneself as Spirit: this is the final stage of spiritual perfection. Having realized the Truth of oneself as Spirit, one is able to worship the Father in Spirit and in Truth (Jn.4:23). In fact realizing oneself as Spirit is the true worship of the Father. This is 'being born of water and spirit' that Jesus speaks of in his conversation with Nicodemus (Jn.3: 5); this is the life in spirit that Paul speaks of again and again in his letters. To be transformed into Christ: this is the height of Christian perfection. Those who have reached this final stage of "Christ mind" see themselves as transformed into Christ. With Paul they can say, "I live, not I, Christ lives in me" (Gal.2: 20) or "we have the mind of Christ" (Cor.2:16).

This stage cannot be reached by mere will power, brainwashing or self-programming; or through great learning or erudition. People following the path of religion often try to reach this stage by self-control, penance and effort. This way could do violence to oneself. Such people, though outwardly appearing saintly could be quite judgmental and violent to others. This stage is a stage of transformation that comes out of an inner perception, harmony and integration with the whole of creation. Compassion, love and service of all are the end product of this experience. Much hard work on oneself is needed to come to this stage. Yet it is a grace; we have to do our part of the search and meditation and yet we have no claim over this experience. It is a gift freely given.

Seventh Stage: Service
Filled with the unending joy of union with the divine, and compassion for all beings the the enlightened ones now take to alleviating the sufferings of humanity. They try to help people attain God consciousness which suffering. consciousness which alone can put an end to their suffering. They work for the unity and harmony of creation. They may be in one place or move about; they could be in some cave all alone, but they are always for others, always doing good, by action or through their very being which sends out strong positive vibrations of healing and integration.

Every stage in this process of spiritual evolution is a preparation for the next stage but this seventh stage is the final stage. This stage is not the monopoly of any one religion or group. Within the parameters of Christian theology we call this the Christ mind or arriving at Christhood, but the same thing could be called by people of other religions by other names, such as Krishna-consciousness, Nirvana, Brindavan. Every human person irrespective of caste, creed, sex or nationality is destined to arrive at this stage. (See: Osho, I say unto you. Vol. I. p 120-153)

1.2. Some characteristic features of these stages

1. Except for the seventh stage every other stage is a preparation to the next stage. It is like a womb. The child grows in the warmth and security of the womb. When the growth proper to the womb is completed the child leaves the security of the womb and takes a leap into the unknown, taking a big risk. If the child does not take this risk, the very womb that so far nurtured the child will strangle it to death. Similarly if one does not keep growing and moving into the next stage one will end up in spiritual death. Most people get stuck with the second stage.

2. When we are growing in one stage we tend to idealize or give absolute importance to that stage, like a mother idealizes her child. But when we reach the saturation of the growth proper to that stage we then relativize it and move to the next stage. When we move from one stage to the next, we can still keep the link with the previous one. For example, when one reaches the third stage of questioning or the fourth stage of intense sadhana, one can now and then come back to the second stage of religion and benefit by attending the rituals, Scripture reading, etc.

3. We can identify different yoga-margas (yogic paths) being active at different stages of this evolution. Bhakti (devotion to the Lord) is dominant in the second stage. Jnana (knowledge), dhyana (introspection and meditation) and karma (selfless service) can be seen in the third, fourth and fifth stages respectively. For those who are at the second stage, besides bhakti, religion prescribes actions of rituals and service. These are done by devotees for reward such as winning the favor of God, obtaining health and wealth and ultimately to get to heaven. These actions cannot be put under the category of karma yoga (union through action' ) unless they are undertaken to obtain God-union.
Karma yoga proper is at the seventh stage, when one having identified one's ego with all, comes forward to serve without expecting any reward.

4. The four branches of the Indian tradition that is, brahmacharya (studies and strict discipline), grihastha (social responsibilities and relationships with the family and society), vanaprastha (introspection and meditation in solitude) and sannyasa (wandering in total renunciation), could be seen as going parallel with these stages. Brahmacharya and grihastha fall under the second stage; the later part of grihastha could be the third stage; vanaprastha the fourth stage and sannyasa the fifth stage. The set of five koshas or sheaths referred to in yoga, is also similar to the spiritual evolution in the five stages; they are: annamaya kosha (sheath of gross matter), prnamaya kosha (sheath of life), manomaya kosha (sheath of mind), vijnanamaya kosha (sheath of intellect)  and anandamaya kosha (bliss sheath), These also show the progressive unfolding of spiritual awakening.

5. The spiritual classics such as The Imitation of Christ, Cloud of Unknowing, Spiritual Exercise of St. Ignatius, The Interior Castle of Teresa of Avila, Ascent of Mount Carmel of John of the Cross, The Way of the Pilgrim from the Hesychasm, The Bhagavad Gita, Patanjali's Yoga Sutra, Bhagavata Purana and so on describe in detail the dynamics of the spiritual transformation that takes place in the third and fourth stages.

6. The second stage produces heroes, saints and martyrs. These are people who lived out faithfully the principles and norms of a social system such as religion and attained perfection in it, or people who defended the social system from attacks from within or without, perhaps even giving their very life. These people are venerated by the social system and held as models to imitate. Those who reach stage five are called mystics. Their individual consciousness has merged with that of God, so they are one with God. While a saint is well programmed by the social system to do "good", the fully transformed mystic radiates goodness without any effort. The mystics fear nothing. Sometimes they deal heavily with the social system for its rigidity and oppression of common people. These are called prophets. Only mystics can become true prophets. Mystic-prophets are often persecuted and even killed by the vested interested groups in a society or religion that try to maintain injustice and domination. Jesus himself is a very good example for this. With the passage of time some of these mystic-prophets are taken and venerated as saviours or saints by society or religion. And so sometimes the word saint is also used to denote the mystic.

(Ken Wilber describes at length the spiritual development in seven stages.)

 
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Ronald Rolheiser plots the course and pain of growing in the spiritual life.
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Sister Una Agnew SSL, author of The Mystical Imagination of Patrick Kavanagh: A Buttonhole in Heaven (1998) explores the mystical vision of Patrick Kavanagh's poetry.
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Frank O'Reilly met Anne Looney who heads up the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment(NCCA). He talked to her about her work and her religious beliefs.
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